Building & Zoning Committee

“Where People Count” Community Development 1000 Civic Center Drive, Niles, Illinois 60714 Mayor Telephone (847) 588-8040 ● Fax (847) 588-8050 ● TDD (847) 588-8059 Robert M. Callero Trustees March 2, 2010 Chris Hanusiak James T. Hynes Joe LoVerde Building and Zoning Committee Meeting 8:30 a.m. Louella B. Preston Andrew Przybylo In Attendance: Alan Weel Robert M. Callero – Mayor Village Manager Rich Wlodarski – Community Development Assistant Director George R. Van Geem Chuck Ostman – Community Development Director Rick Sheridan - Electrical Inspector/Signs/Community Development Village Clerk Steve Vinezeano – Assistant Village Manager Marlene J. Victorine Joe Annunzio – Village Attorney ______________ George Van Geem – Village Manager Community Andrew Przybylo – Village Trustee Development Chris Hanusiak – Village Trustee Director James Hynes – Village Trustee Charles Ostman Bonnie Jacobson - Mary Ann Starzynski – recording Al Maiden – Rolf Campbell & Associates (Arrived later) Jeremiah Savage – Rolf Campbell & Associates (Arrived later) Absent: None. Meeting called to order at 8:35 a.m. by Andrew Przybylo. Approval of Minutes: Andrew Przybylo made a motion, seconded by Mayor Callero to approve the minutes of the February 2, 2010 and December 21, 2009 Building & Zoning Committee meeting as submitted. George Van Geem made a comment that the minutes from December 21st were summary and the February 2nd minutes were verbatim. He asked which was preferred. Summary minutes were agreed upon. Al Maiden was running late so the meeting started with Item IV - Review of the Comprehensive Plan: There was discussion that followed on the two consultants for the Comprehensive Plan, Camiros and Houseal Lavigne. Bonnie explained a summary of the references she contacted for each consultant being considered. There were two references for Camiros and three references for Houseal Lavigne. She felt that the references came in equally good for both firms and that any negative comments were based more on red flags in the process and what to look for in a contract than a corporate consultant’s good or bad job. Based on the communities’ situation not the consultant on the job. Bonnie felt based on information obtained that Houseal Lavigne was the firm to use. www.vniles.com Chuck Ostman commented that Houseal Lavigne is a much smaller firm and Bonnie commented that Houseal Lavigne is a newer firm. Mayor Callero asked Bonnie if she has experience with either of these firms. Bonnie responded she has worked with both previously. After some discussion Andrew Przybylo asked Bonnie if the board chose Camiros she would support Houseal Lavigne. Bonnie responded affirmatively. Chuck commented that he felt everyone was in favor of Houseal Lavigne. George Van Geem said convince me I am not decided. Chuck responded by stating that Houseal Lavigne is more aggressive and has a more comprehensive use of technology. Bonnie responded that due to Houseal Lavigne’s broader depth on the market component and their general excitement and enthusiasm and use of greater variety of citizen participation techniques may be more appropriate for Niles in terms of their personalities and team approach. Jim Hynes asked what you mean by marketing component. Bonnie responded you need to have a real understanding of the commercial and industrial and even the housing market, land use for the future. Chris Hanusiak again stated that Houseal Lavigne is a smaller firm and liked that aspect and asked how many projects they are currently working on? Bonnie was not able to precisely answer that but did state that it is important to find out who the project manager would be and to negotiate a timeline. Andrew Przybylo stated that budget issues were being skipped. Bonnie stated that all quotes were about in the same price range, no big variance between the two companies being considered. Houseal Lavinge $80,000 - $100,000 and Camiros $125,000. George Van Geem stated that Camiros is open to fee negotiations. And Andrew Przybylo stated that there is a need to watch the number of meetings so fees don’t soar. Chris Hanusiak stated that Camiros had more meetings planned. Andrew asked if we could get an outline of meetings needed and proposed and a specific timeline. George Van Geem asked if this was a project that could be done in-house. Bonnie responded NO this is too large of a task. She said that zoning code is different and that comprehensive plans are overwhelming projects. She felt that zoning codes done internally was a good idea as so much of the administration of the code and what you realize is wrong with a code deals with the day to day use of it. Jim Hynes said that Houseal Lavigne focuses on community input using website, info gathering, feedback, etc. That impressed him. He stated that he is not tied to either firm at this time but does prefer Houseal Lavigne Andrew Przybylo stated that he tends to agree. Feels that Houseal Lavigne has more energy, but stated that the devil is in the details. Jim Hynes asked what the timeline is. Andrew Przybylo stated that this is a big step and a lot of money involved. Bonnie said that the Village is not tied to any one firm for life so to speak. George Van Geem expressed an interest in visiting Houseal Lavigne as he missed their presentation when it was given. Chuck stated that he has the meeting digitally recorded for anyone that was interested in listening to the presentation. Andrew Przybylo said he would be interested in listening to the meeting again and asked Chuck to send him a copy. Andrew Przybylo asked George Van Geem if he wanted to visit the firm one more time and he stated yes he would feel more comfortable if they did that. Mayor Callero suggested that Bonnie or Chuck also attend. Bonnie agreed to accompany them on a visit. George Van Geem asked Bonnie if she had actually read the plans for the references, did she have a copy of the plans produced/used. She responded no. George Van Geem thought that would be a good idea to get an actual copy of the final product for the references. George also added that our budget our new budget proposal has $130,000 in there for this but there are still a lot of items to be talked about. Mayor Callero stated that it has to be done in the next 15 months it does not have to be done next week. Steve Vinezeano asked Bonnie that a comp plan doesn’t have to be 2 done all in one year from start to stop, what would be the problem with maybe breaking this into two years. Bonnie stated that you want the continuity of the planning effort which is usually about a year to a year and a half. It is a big undertaking. Financially it is not uncommon to budget over two budget cycles. Andrew Przybylo stated that they should get the actual plans for each of the communities that were researched and review each one. Then follow that with a meeting at the firm and questions/concerns that exist. Andrew Przybylo also stated that he is concerned with the money, not the money the Village will be spending, but the money that will potentially be generated back to the Village. How to evaluate a plan that will give growth to the Village not necessarily in terms of population but growth in the business community. Bonnie responded retail may not be the best use. In other areas maybe to create a better business environment certainly to create more TIF’s, or put certain properties together or do more urban design to create a more modern retail. Or take a look I think probably the area most influx is the industrial sector. George Van Geem asked if our statistics show shrinkage in the industrial park because he said he hasn’t really seen much. Bonnie said overall industry has more vacancies. Chuck Ostman responded if anything it shrunk very little, not sure of what percentage, but it shrunk very little. Bonnie stated that she felt there is still a very strong industrial base here she felt the nature of and size of and type of buildings are a change for the future. The market component comes in as to how are we going to reinvent the industrial area like the commercial area for the future. George Van Geem said he doesn’t want to delay this but feels we should obtain the plans from the references, talk to the principals, no reason not to do that. Item III Overall Policy Direction on Prohibited, Exempt, and Temporary Sign Review. Al Maiden and Jeremiah Savage of Rolf Campbell and Associates, the Village consultants for this project were present. A packet for feedback purposes was handed out for review of Prohibited, Exempt, Temporary signs in order to give them a clear policy direction in their preparation of an initial draft. ( A copy of the handout is attached to the minutes.) Andrew Przybylo introduced Al Maiden. Al then introduced Jeremiah Savage. Al stated that they have already met with staff and reviewed some of the ways that the ordinance may have gray areas, depending on interpretation. If the community wants it prohibited they won’t waste time on any other standards and things. If exempt, temporary, those are things they would like direction on before they do a draft for the next meeting. This is a first step in direction of what the Village wants for the sign code. Al began with a definition of signs. Sign means any identification, description, illustration or device, illuminated or non-illuminated, which is visible from any public place or is located on private property and exposed to the public, which directs attention to a product, service, place, activity, person, institution, business or solicitation, including any permanently installed or situated merchandise; or any emblem, painting, banner, pennant, placard or temporary sign designed to advertise, identify or convey information, with the exception of window displays and national flags. For the purpose of removal, signs shall also include all sign structures. Prohibited Signs: Question arose as to how “lost dog” signs as an example would be regulated from being posted on poles, etc. The general answer was that a call could be made to the number on the posting and they could be told where posting is allowed and not prohibited. George Van Geem stated that this is prohibited now and Chuck Ostman stated that Public Works takes down such prohibited signs. Andrew Przybylo then asked if towns ever create the kiosks on corners where posting could be located. Al Maiden stated that in Geneva’s plans they incorporated kiosks along bike trails, shopping 3 centers. Andres Przybylo stated that he has mixed feelings as these messages are usually non commercial, a personal message. Al Maiden stated the village shouldn’t make any distinctions. Bonnie said can not regulate free speech.. Bonnie suggested perhaps public notice boards. Andrew Przybylo stated that he likes the ability of people to communicate that is how you build community, when people are talking to each other not relying only on themselves. Bonnie just felt it would be better in a centralized area which could be controlled. Andrew Przybylo said yes if a comprehensive plan could find those areas or maybe you create an exchange where people can actually go and ask the people with these message boards if they will incorporate something into the message, not commercial use but for personal use. Mayor Callero stated that the Police Sign is capable of putting public interest on there. Abandoned signs are currently 6 months. Jim Hynes and Mayor Callero felt 6 months was too long. Andrew Przybylo stated he felt 3 -4 months. Vacant building/property. Andrew Przybylo said okay lets talk about Caldwell, the restaurant, are they vacant, are they abandoned, they have a sign up we are remodeling, we’re coming back. Free standing building is that of consideration? Chris Hanusiak felt that if signs were pulled off it would look worse and even more abandoned. Jeremiah stated that they could include a definition of vacant. Billboards were discussed. Chuck Ostman stated that we have 4 in the Village currently. Mayor Callero asked where the 4 are located. Chuck responded just annexed at Golf & Washington which has been there for 20 years, Public Works – across the street by St. Benedicts, and 2 along the tracks on Lehigh Avenue. Bonnie asked how you define billboard. Andrew Przybylo stated most communities won’t allow billboards right? The answer was in high traffic corridors. Andrew Przybylo asked if anyone felt we should cease billboards. Mayor Callero stated that the 4 current billboards would have to be grandfathered in. It was noted that there would be room on Lehigh for more or by Golf Mill there is also room. Mayor Callero stated that you could put them on top of a building. George Van Geem stated they are prohibited now should keep prohibited. Agreement was that if they are prohibited now they should stay prohibited. If an issue on any item should then be discussed. Andrew Przybylo then asked what projected signs are. Al Maiden responded if a sign is not flush with the wall, parallel with the wall, then it is projecting. Andrew Przybylo asked if we are against projecting signs. Chuck Ostman stated that it is prohibited now. Bonnie said that maybe later it would be nice to do some. Andrew Przybylo stated well that would be under “special use” right. Chuck stated no this is a prohibited sign. Jim Hynes stated if it is a prohibited sign you can’t get a special use but you can have a petition to change that provision to a special use. Most of those projecting signs would be for foot traffic. George Van Geem said okay so if we regulate with standards. Discussion about Vehicular signs. How do we prohibit that? Not really a big problem in the Village right now. There are the vehicles though that park in a public lot. George Van Geem stated that advertising motorized vehicles shouldn’t be prohibited but regulated. Bonnie stated shouldn’t be parked in a public lot and left there. Andrew Przybylo asked what advertising matter that is untruthful is. Al Maiden said that is one you want to talk to your attorney about we don’t usually include that. We may include pornographic aspects but you have to be careful as to being subject to lawsuits on how you interpret untruthful. George Van Geem suggested moving vehicular signs from prohibited to regulate. Neon signs should be regulated. Andrew Przybylo asked why other communities prohibit Neon or LED. Al Maiden said some buildings wrap/ring their entire roof of the building with just one big neon string and say that is not a sign. If regulated that every x lineal feet of tubing it counts towards your total signage allowed. Again Andrew Przybylo stated Neon/LED should be regulated with standards. 4 Andrew Przybylo then stated inflatables should be restricted but it should be restricted in terms of weeks or months. It is treated as a temporary sign right now. Rick Sheridan stated it currently is 30 day temporary sign which they have to apply – no charge – but not in the ordinance. Chuck Ostman stated that the village does not get involved with private property. Andrew then asked about back lit translucent awing signs. He felt that he has seen them tastefully done and can they be regulated not prohibited. Andrew Przybylo asked is it somewhere allowed that you can put signage up 2 weeks before a grand opening, say your regular signage is not up yet. Al Maiden responded what they recommend is a special event sign – temporary signage. Rick Sheridan stated that for a grand opening you are allowed up to 60 days – which is a 30 day extension over regular temporary signage. Exempt Signs: do not need permit. Chuck Ostman stated that signs that are held up by people at the corners for going out of business or selling gold we can’t do anything with those correct. Al Maiden said it would be a temporary permit as they aren’t doing that 365 days a year. If it is in the right of way it is not a signage, but you could require that they come in because as a Village you want to know if they are walking around out there. Chuck stated that there should be some wording in there stating something. Bonnie asked if it is considered signage if they are walking in the public right of way. Al Maiden stated what is its purpose, the Village can define the purpose. Freedom of speech can’t be obstructed. Again it is all in the definition of the purpose. Al Maiden again stated that an exempt sign does not need a permit they can simply do it. Al Maiden recommends that the Village make them temporary signs that do need a permit. After discussion should political signs be exempt with restrictions or temporary. Suggested $50.00 fee to put up political signs – unlimited quantity not per sign. How about a condition that they can’t be in a right of way more than 2 weeks before an election and within 2 weeks after the election they have to be taken down. Need to be enforced. Chris Hanusiak stated that there are three different definitions of Right of Way. Needs further discussion. Neighborhood Identification signs should be regulated. Temporary Signs: Andrew Przybylo stated that temporary signs do not currently have their own section. Various definitions of window signs were discussed. Bonnie stated that an easier way to do this and to enforce it as well is to come up with a certain percentage of the window for both code and temporary signs. The percentage would have to be adhered to. Andrew Przybylo stated that someone like Jerry’s would get away with it because they are changing the price of bananas so maybe it is the same banana sign but the price changes so therefore he would have – regulate it by a 30 day window, but the price of bananas changed so technically he put one sign up and then put a different sign up. Bonnie stated that is why it is too complicated to enforce the difference between temporary and permanent. Come up with one percentage or so many items or whatever - certain businesses need a variation because of the nature of their business. Andrew Przybylo then stated so you would then stipulate a percentage but you can also then say that variance can be applied for. Rick Sheridan also noted that there are a lot of neon borders that are not regulated right now. Al Maiden made the comment that some communities have police that do not like the first 6 feet of the window covered because at night they can’t see into the business to protect the property. Others say 50%, well is that the bottom 50% or the top 50%. Andrew Przybylo said you guys are going to have to come up with something this is really very complicated. All sign handouts were given back to Al Maiden to review with notations by those in attendance. Andrew Przybylo stated if the next Item V – Chapter 18, had to be covered at this meeting. Chuck Ostman stated no just have to bring up to the Board. They wanted to take it to the Village Board. Rich 5 Wlodarski stated that these are the major highlights fees, vacant property, and temporary fence. Andrew Przybylo asked if this could be electronically sent to him to review before the next board meeting. Rich Wlodarski stated if there are any questions to give him a call. Andrew Przybylo asked when the next meeting should be. Mayor Callero suggested next month. Andrew Przybylo asked if April 6th was okay, Bonnie stated that is the last couple days of Passover. Andrew Przybylo said the next meeting will be April 8th at 8:30 and it was suggested it be limited to a hour and a half 10:00 a.m. ending time. Meeting adjourned at 10:35 a.m. 6