Planning and Zoning Board

APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 The Niles Plan Commission and Zoning Board of Appeals was called to order at 7:00 P.M. Chairman Kanelos asked everyone to stand for the Pledge of Allegiance. Present along with Chairman Thomas Kanelos and Village Attorney Joseph Annunzio was Vice-Chairman Karen Dimond, Commissioners Thomas Surace, Angelo Troiani, Barbara Nakanishi, Robert Schulter and Morgan Dubiel. Also present was Charles Ostman, Director of Community Development and Richard Wlodarski, Assistant Director of Community Development. Commissioner Schulter asked for a moment of silence in memory of Bart Murphy who served on the Board of Trustees for 31 years. Mr. Murphy passed away last week. Chairman Kanelos asked if there were any questions, clarifications or corrections to the minutes of January 3, 2011. There were none. Commissioner Dubiel moved to approve the January 3, 2011 minutes. Seconded by Vice Chairman Dimond, on roll call the vote was: AYES: 7 Dimond, Surace, Kanelos, Troiani, Nakanishi, Schulter, Dubiel NAYS: 0 There being seven (7) affirmative votes the motion carried. OLD BUSINESS Review and recommendation of Chapter 78 – Sign Code Amendments. NEW BUSINESS 11-ZP-01 Harry Major, owner, 155 N. Michigan Ave., Suite #565, Chicago, IL 60601 Requesting approval of a Special Use to Appendix B Section VIII (B)(3)(nn) to operate a Dental Clinic at 7886 N. Milwaukee Ave., Niles, IL 60714. Page 1 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Chairman Kanelos said tonight as a courtesy the Board would hear the one petitioner before proceeding with the Old Business. Richard Wlodarski stepped forward to present case 11-ZP-01. Subject property 7886 N. Milwaukee Ave. Legal notice was published on January 20, 2011 in the Bugle Newspaper. Letters were mailed to all properties located within 250 feet of the subject property. This request is for a Special Use to open and operate a dental practice located within the Oak Mill Mall shopping center. This space was previously occupied by Blockbuster Video which was approximately 3,000 sq. ft. Blockbuster went out of business in January 2010. In July 2010, T-Mobile leased 1,250 sq. ft. and now the dental practice is leasing the remaining 2,750 sq. ft. The staff has reviewed the parking for the shopping center and with the nature of this practice we feel there are no parking concerns. This Board is a recommending Board to the Board of Trustees. Chairman Kanelos asked if there were any questions for Mr. Wlodarski. There were none from the Board or from the public. At this time Chairman Kanelos called the petitioner to the podium. Harry Major, owner, 2211 Crestview Ln., Wilmette, IL 60091 stepped forward and was sworn in. He gave a background of Oak Mill Mall to the Board. He purchased Oak Mill Mall in 1994. It was in bankruptcy and he bought it at auction from the RTC. It was about 50% vacant. He ended up having a lot of it rented as medical office space. It has been a stabilizing force economically to have the doctors there. He has also attempted to have the Jewel expand at least three times. They have not changed because it doesn’t fit their configuration of frontage. In 2000 he built the Oak Mill shops, of which Blockbuster was the anchor. Since Blockbuster left, the leasing agent was able to secure T-Mobile for 1,242 sq. ft., about 1/3 of the space. Northwestern Dental (Dr. Mullvaney) is here tonight. This is a top level dental practice. They may have three to five patients an hour, at the most. They are always conscious of the parking. They would be stabilizing that little end of strip stores; having a good, solid financial tenant would help the retailers. Vice-Charman Dimond said the Wilmette address does not match the Chicago address. Page 2 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Mr. Major said the Wilmette address is his home; the Chicago address, his office. Vice-Chairman Dimond then asked if there was a lease with Northwestern Dental Group. Mr. Major said yes, there is a lease. It is in the final stages of the final draft. Commissioner Nakanishi noted the footprint of the floor plan on sheet 1 of 1 doesn’t match the footprint of the floor plan on sheet A-1. [Commissioner Nakanishi then walked over to Mr. Major to show the difference.] Mr. Major said Northwestern Dental has not hired an architect yet to conform. Sheet 1 of 1 is a typical floor plan for their office – they have six offices. It has not been conformed to this space yet. There will be five stations where the doctor goes between the stations. Commissioner Dubiel asked the Board to admit into evidence the complete packet for this case as Exhibit A. Chairman Kanelos asked if there were any questions from the Commissioners or the public. There were none. At this time he entertained a motion. Commissioner Troiani moved that 11-ZP-01 - Harry Major, owner, 155 N. Michigan Ave., Suite #565, Chicago, IL 60601 - requesting approval of a Special Use to Appendix B Section VIII (B)(3)(nn) to operate a Dental Clinic at 7886 N. Milwaukee Ave., Niles, IL 60714 be approved. Seconded by Commissioner Surace, on roll call the vote was: AYES: 7 Dimond, Surace, Kanelos, Troiani, Nakanishi, Schulter, Dubiel NAYS: 0 There being seven (7) affirmative votes the motion carried. OLD BUSINESS Review and recommendation of Chapter 78 – Sign Code Amendments. Page 3 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 This is a continuation of the review and possibly a recommendation on the proposed Sign Code ordinance from the meeting of January 3, 2011. Charles Ostman stepped forward. This is a continued hearing on the amendments to the Sign Code. The full amendments have been included in your packets. The other package in your packets tonight are some of the pictures requested; examples of signs that would be conforming and what would not be conforming. It is estimated that 50% of the ground signs along Milwaukee Avenue [they did not have time to go through the entire count] would be non-conforming. This is due to the height. They would have to be conforming within 15 years if this code is adopted. Commissioner Dubiel questioned 20 ft. in the manufacturing district. He thought they were at 22 ft. Mr. Ostman said no, they are keeping it the same throughout the two districts. For clarification, 20 ft; if it is a large shopping center – up to 22 ft; if it is a shopping center over 500,000 sq. ft. – up to 32 ft. Commissioner Nakanishi said two new signs recently went up: one at Skaja Funeral Home and one at A American Flooring. Would those be non- conforming? Mr. Ostman said the one at A American would be non-conforming. The one at Skaja is conforming. Commissioner Dubiel asked on the 50% of ground signs, that’s the 20 ft. standard, correct? Is there some sense if that were 24 ft. or 26 ft., that number might jump to 80%? Mr. Ostman said yes, that’s the 20 ft. standard. They went up and down Milwaukee Avenue quickly picking out the ones that were over 20 ft. They were looking at the 18 ft. and 20 ft. signs. As they started looking at those two measurements, they found a lot of 20 ft. signs to be in conformance; that’s why it was bumped up to 20 ft. Originally, the proposal was 18 ft, to match Skokie. Right now Skokie is at 18 ft. Page 4 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Commissioner Nakanishi feels the sign at A American should be grandfathered in since the Board recently approved that sign. Mr. Ostman said there are some other signs that did not have to come before this Board that have been permitted and would be non-conforming. A American happened to come in front of the Board because of the electronic portion. Vice-Chairman Dimond has a concern that some signs are not in conformance with our current ordinance. She hopes those signs will not be grandfathered in simply because they were in existence but in violation of the current code. Mr. Ostman said they would be legal non-conforming, because the Village permitted them and don’t know why because the code has not changed since 1965. They were permitted; they are legally up there. Commissioner Dubiel asked of those signs permitted that are currently non- compliant, [see page 3] – for instance, Advantage, this sign was properly permitted, but the product names beneath Advantage, i.e. Grohe, Kohler, American Standard, etc. Are they in violation now? Mr. Ostman said yes they are. Commissioner Dubiel said but the Village has taken no action against anyone who is in violation. And now we are going to be grandfathering these in, correct? Mr. Ostman said yes, because a permit was obtained for that sign. Commissioner Dubiel said so, even though part of the permit was in violation because they didn’t obtain the permit for the product names, are we now permitting that? So that has to be removed? Mr. Ostman said no, we will not permit that. All those name of the manufacturing companies are well over-signed. To bring Advantage into conformity, all those manufacturers’ names would have to come down. And one of those two signs on the building will have to be reduced by 50%. The entire sign was permitted. Page 5 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 There is some confusion over the words per’-mit and per-mit’ depending on which syllable the accent is on. Commissioner Dubiel asked for the current height of the sign at Lone Tree Manor. Mr. Ostman does not know the exact height – possibly 28 ft. Commissioner Dubiel said then the columns would have to come down. NTB would have to also. CVS is ok. Golf Mill would have to cut their sign. Mr. Ostman said with Golf Mill having over a million square feet, they would be okay. Commissioner Dubiel asked for clarification on the number of flags at an establishment. Mr. Ostman said they are trying to avoid a store putting up twenty to thirty flags because it is very distracting for the traffic. The municipalities have a right to limit the number of flags because of the safety issue. Commissioner Dubiel is questioning a truck wrapped in advertising that is always parked in front of Major Realty. Mr. Ostman said it depends if the intent is to be used as advertising. Our main target is the big trucks you see parked near an establishment that are used for advertising. At one time there were three trucks like that parked at Four Flags. That is what we are trying to eliminate. We are going to have to establish policy because every situation is unique. Chairman Kanelos asked if there is a van that has advertising on it and it is parked in a regular parking spot in front of that business, you can safely assume the intent is not there as an advertisement. Whereas, if you have a big parking lot and the trucks always happen to be parked at the corner of the main intersection and there are fifty other empty places to park, the intent is probably to use that as a sign. Commissioner Dubiel is concerned about painting this with a broad brush. Page 6 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Jerry’s Fruit Market sign is in violation now, too. It was permitted but it exceeds the acceptable size now. The window signs would have to be reduced a little bit. Chairman Kanelos asked if there were any other questions for Mr. Ostman from the Board. He then asked if anyone in the audience had questions. Anna Vinikov, Global Health Clinic, Four Flags, 8269 W. Golf Rd., Niles, IL stepped to the podium and was sworn in. Her question is about the signage of the windows. She is getting mixed information about what they are allowed. She was told hers covers too much but others in the plaza have more than 70% of their windows covered. The information they got from the Village is they are allowed to do it because they are bigger businesses and if no one complains its okay. Mr. Ostman said that right now they are not enforcing any regulations on the windows signs until this ordinance is resolved. But if this code is adopted everyone will start fresh and across the board will have to comply with the Sign Code in the same manner. Chairman Kanelos said if this passes here as a recommendation to the Trustees, then the Trustees vote and approve it – at that point what is contained in this is what you will have to comply with. Commissioner Dubiel wanted to clarify that window signs are not being grandfathered in. The only signs to be grandfathered in are neon signs around the windows, ground signs and storefront signs, correct? At this time Mr. Ostman asked Jeremiah Yeksavich from Rolf C. Campbell & Associates to step to the podium. He was sworn in. Mr. Yeksavich said there are two types of window signage under the new ordinance. There is temporary signage. For most businesses that will be 50% of the window; for supermarkets they are allowed 75%. The type of permanent signage Ms. Vinikov is speaking of falls under the whole scope of signage for the building. He then went over some of the changes that were made to the text that differed from the suggestions of the Commission: Page 7 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Page 17 – middle of the page for 7, number c under Vehicular sign – this touched on the 200 ft. lamberts question; we didn’t change it from the previous ordinance to foot candles because a foot lambert is actually a different measurement of light. It is the intensity of light being shined out whereas a foot candle is the amount of illumination spread out onto a property. We changed it a more modern standard which is a nit. 500 nits is equivalent to 200 ft. lambert, which actually is an older measurement. But it also measures what is being allowed under the LED signage for message board signs. Vehicular signage with respect to intent. Two ways to handle. First example would be a moving company like U-Haul. They have to store all their cars/trucks on the lot and they already have advertising on them. Second, you can see what a vehicular sign is that is parked at a specific spot. The Village could be more specific but it would have to be narrowly focused down to those types of trucks. It may limit some options. Language right now can be interpreted or does it need to be more specific. His suggestion is not to narrow it down. Looking at other sign ordinances, their language is similar. There is that question, though, of who is making the interpretation. That’s why there is a Commission to hear those appeals. Commissioner Dubiel gave A American Flooring’s box truck as an example. Businesses are inventive when getting their message out. If there was a complaint about that box truck signage, could they then come before the Board and appeal, saying it is not their intent to leave the truck in the same spot day after day for the purpose of advertising? Chairman Kanelos asked if Mr. Yeksavich is recommending keeping it broader; however, a business owner would have recourse if they disagree with the Village’s ruling and they have a course of action to appeal. Mr. Yeksavich said yes. Next changes: Page 27 – the word “permitted” at the top of the page. We use the word permitted instead of allowed because it is under the signs that require a permit. Page 29 – item “f” at the bottom. The wording about whether monument signs should be built from decorative materials. It was suggested the word should be must instead of should. They left it at should to allow flexibility. It Page 8 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 is a suggestion that these things should be made of decorative materials. It is up to the Commission to recommend if this is a definite requirement that all monument signs should be made of this type of masonry. Page 51 – Sign Lettering. Shall the dominant commercial sign be written in English. This has been in existence in the code. At the staff level, they feel it is a policy decision for the Village to determine. Those are all the changes that they differed slightly from the Board’s recommendations. Everything else was grammatical and textural changes that were approved. Chairman Kanelos asked if there were any questions from the Commissioners. Commissioner Dubiel asked how many man-hours has it taken from the start of this project until tonight. Mr. Yeksavich stated approximately around 100 hours for his firm. He does not know how many hours at the Village staff level. Commissioner Dubiel said his concern now is the Exempt sign. This would be Section 78-5.0, page 19. Section 1 - Construction signs – being removed five days after an issuance of occupancy permit. Can that be extended? Mr. Yeksavich said that 5 days was existing – they just cleaned up the language. If the Commission wants to extend that date, it is something they would listen to. Mr. Ostman said after all the roofing signs put up this summer, we finally went out and enforced the ordinance that the signs had to come down because we got so many complaints. Commissioner Dubiel moved on to Celebratory signs. Prior to this we did not regulate Celebratory signs, correct? Mr. Yeksavich said correct. Page 9 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Mr. Ostman said again, there are a lot of complaints from the residents. It’s about the same sign being placed throughout a neighborhood. Most of them are school or sport signs. Commissioner Dubiel asked if it would help to narrow it down to be more specific as far as repetitious signage throughout a neighborhood. Mr. Ostman said this whole ordinance did go through and there has been a lot of discussion on this at a public meeting with the Building and Zoning Committee. He is comfortable with the text that is drafted. It would be up to this Board whether or not to offer an amendment. Commissioner Dubiel next stated Holiday decorations. Is there a difference between that and a yard ornament? Mr. Yeksavich said the definition said it has to be something for a recognized holiday. It is up to the Village as to what those holidays are. There is a freedom of speech question since this is a residential area. Commissioner Dubiel said there was some concern about there being a problem with the Electrical Code. As a Board they are to look at health, safety and welfare. The safety and health issues are addressed through the Electrical Code, correct? Mr. Yeksavich said there are provisions in the Electrical Code for certain signage. Commissioner Dubiel said it is ninety days for holiday lights. The other issue becomes welfare. He feels different religious displays might violate the law. If you are a Wicken and have something that is ongoing and have a display up year round, does it differ if you are Christian and put up a manger for more than ninety days. Do you see how this could be unfair? Mr. Yeksavich said Wicken is a religious organization and their holidays would fall under the codes just like any other Christian organization. Commissioner Dubiel asked that this be stricken as part of the recommendation – just not have it in the code at all. Vice-Chairman Dimond has a concern about using the words allowed and permitted. She feels if they are saying something is allowed, they should use Page 10 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 the word allowed and only use the word permit when talking about an actual piece of paper. There is a potential for confusion. Mr. Yeksavich said in the next recommendation the Board will make that change. Chairman Kanelos asked for a reminder where the section is regarding Political signs. Mr. Yeksavich said page 21. Chairman Kanelos asked what the reason for allowing only three signs is. Mr. Yeksavich said that was the suggestion of staff to increase it from one to three. Chairman Kanelos has a concern with that. Not the size, but if he wants to promote five candidates, he should be able to. When the time comes, he recommends that be changed so there is not a limit to political signs. But if they have to be down within three to five days after the election, that is okay. Mr. Ostman said that is the problem. The new law passed says they can stay up 365 days a year. So if you have twenty-five signs on the lawn, they can stay up 365 days a year. He researched other municipalities but that was before the law was changed. A lot of them don’t have a limit on the number of signs. Vice-Chairman Dimond asked if the Chairman would find it more acceptable if they would limit it to 20 sq. ft instead of a certain number of signs. Chairman Kanelos said he has a problem with restriction of political speech. Commissioner Dubiel said yes, someone may abuse it. There are approximately 12,000 households in Niles. 99% are average, normal citizens who take the signs down and are reasonable. Do we have a history of enforcement? Mr. Ostman said it was never enforced. Page 11 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Commissioner Dubiel said in his research this would be a major free speech 1st amendment issue as well as the private property issue. Mr. Ostman said he personally could go along with. When the Village was going through the teardown period [of houses] we kept coming back to the Planning Commission with concerns of the residents. We could go with the unlimited political signs and all it takes is one or two to abuse it. We would be doing the same thing to the Sign Code. On an annual basis we would be reviewing with this Board all the concerns out there. Commissioner Schulter asked how long has the “one sign ordinance” been in effect? Mr. Ostman said the Sign Code has not been touched since 1965. There were no more questions from the Board. At this time the Chairman asked if there were questions from the public. Anna Maria Kowalik, 823 Granville Ave., Park Ridge, IL 60068 stepped forward and was sworn in. She works for Inland Real Estate/Commercial Property Management, 2901 Butterfield Rd., Oak Brook, IL. They are the owners and managers of Four Flags Shopping Center and Gold Road Plaza in the Village of Niles for approximately fifteen years. She is there for clarification of intent. Their property managers do not manage from on-site. They visit each property at least every ten days. They themselves have window signage restrictions within their leases. She feels the new proposed language is not very clear on grandfathering. In fifteen years when all this comes to pass, their signage would be twenty years old and probably in need of being re-done. Comments from Inland’s leasing division said visibility from signage is one of the main factors behind a retailer’s decision to lease a space. Much of the center has limited street-front visibility to Golf Rd. as well as Milwaukee Ave. She has concerns over future leasing if they end up losing signage. A main question is what is the Comprehensive Signage Plan? Mr. Yeksavich said it is all the signage that requires a permit on site in one packet. For the entire shopping center you will have a total packet put together of all dimensions for wall signs, ground signs, street signs and permanent window signs. One of the intents of the Building and Zoning Committee is not to completely remake the ordinance but to simplify, clarify and modernize it. The total maximum signage from the previous code would Page 12 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 be maintained in this code as well. The major change is the reduction of sign height for ground signs. Ms. Kowalik continued with details about the tenants in the shopping center and how they conform to signage according to their lease provisions. Mr. Yeksavich said the process will be incremental. The fifteen year grandfathering allows you to keep all your signage on site, unchanged. As you bring in new businesses, it will be expected whatever the new signage is will be in compliance with the code on a case by case basis. Ms. Kowalik continued about how the Village will calculate signage for a new tenant under the new rules. Mr. Yeksavich said you are ahead of the game. The packet we are talking about is exactly what the Comprehensive Signage Plan would be for that particular business. The only change would be the ground sign; how big of a panel they may or may not get. Under the new proposed ordinance they still receive the same maximum amount they got before. Ms. Kowalik questioned the frontage near the right-of-way along the lot line near the street. Mr. Yeksavich said the street frontage only affects the maximum ground signage. It’s your wall frontage at your primary entrance that affects how much total signage you get for each business. Ms. Kowalik said another concern is in the materials. She wondered if in fifteen years as they begin replacing signs, will they have to get a Special Use permit if they did not have one in the past. Mr. Yeksavich said no. It would be just a permit if it is part of your overall signage. As long as you’re not changing the sign it is okay. Ms. Kowalik continued. She felt the grandfathering seemed open ended. Chairman Kanelos asked Ms. Kowalik to focus her questions because there are a lot of people waiting to speak. Page 13 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Ms. Kowalik went on about official traffic signs or signals being prohibited. Shopping centers for the most part have traffic type signage. Mr. Yeksavich said those types of signs are listed under the exempt signage. Ms. Kowalik ended by saying signage is one of the lifelines for a business. This is very important and we appreciate your allowing us to comment. Commissioner Dubiel said they will try to be as sensitive and flexible as possible to businesses. Chairman Kanelos said in an effort to try to give everybody an opportunity to speak he is going to impose a five minute time limit on their comments. He emphasized he is going to enforce it. Tonight the Board is acting in a quasi- legislative role in making a recommendation to the Village. You will also have another opportunity, if this is passed tonight, to speak before the Trustees. You won’t be without a voice, but will have to focus a little more tonight. Joe Walsh, 7840 Neva, Niles, IL stepped to the podium and was sworn in. He also owns Access Benefits Solutions, 6954 W. Touhy, Suite 104, Niles, IL. Regarding holiday decorations, is the American flag considered a holiday decoration? Mr. Yeksavich said no, the American flag is separate from holiday decorations. Flags are an exempt sign. Mr. Walsh said his child goes to St. John Brebeuf. The school gave him signs that say they support St. John Brebeuf School. He feels as a right of free speech, he should be able to put this on his lawn. Joseph Annunzio, Village Attorney, said there is a balancing act that goes on in something like this. It is not a yes or no. Everyone’s concerns have to be weighed. No one is trying to abridge anyone’s free speech rights. The question is does the Village want seventy-five signs in one neighborhood. Mr. Walsh then asked about bumper stickers. Will you limit those? What is the difference? Commissioner Dubiel said he didn’t see any difference and does not like this part of the code. Page 14 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Mr. Walsh said the Sign Code does not affect his business at all. He said Old Navy recently moved to Four Flags because Niles has a more favorable Sign Code. Now we are going to change the Sign Code in a Village that is very dependent on sales tax. Has the Board weighed the sales tax revenue versus the ability to put up a sign? If businesses do not move here, it will affect the property tax. Chairman Kanelos said they are sensitive to that and Niles is still going to have a more liberal sign code than the surrounding area. It is very important to us, especially since we are also residents of Niles. Mr. Ostman said you have to understand the building signs have not changed. That part of the ordinance has not changed at all. Pat Knoll, Director of Global Facilities, Shure, Inc., 5800 Touhy Ave., Niles, IL stepped to the podium. How is the new signage code going to impact the Shure sign? She went on to say the sign is part of the architectural element of the Helmut Jahn designed building. Shure is an owner committed to the community. According to the code, the sign may be two and one half times larger than what the code prescribes. Denise McCreery, 8256 N. Oketo, Niles, IL came to the podium and was sworn in. She would like clarifications on the parameters of the Holiday signs. Mr. Yeksavich said there are time limits on that. It is forty-five days before the holiday and then ninety days after the holiday. Ms. McCreery asked if the St. John Brebeuf signs fell under that same holiday category. Mr. Yeksavich said that might fall under Celebratory signage or Religious signage. Religious signage shall be allowed provided they do not exceed four square feet in area. The time is unlimited for emblems and plaques. The St. John sign is most likely Celebratory and it can be erected for fourteen continuous days. It needs to come down for a period of two weeks; then it is allowed to be erected again. Page 15 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Ms. McCreery’s comment to that is politicians say she can put up a sign with the politician’s name and leave it up forever but she can’t put up a sign with her child’s school name on it and leave it displayed forever. Theresa Connors, Tucker Development Corp., 799 Central Ave., Highland Park, IL came to the podium and was sworn in. They own Point Plaza Shopping Center. They know the proposed ordinance doesn’t affect the wall signs but in terms of the ground signs, this ordinance would greatly impact the center. The sign they now have does not meet the criteria. There are major tenants for whom they are required to provide signage. How do they address this problem as a shopping center owner? Mr. Ostman said they would work with the individual shopping center owners. This is fifteen years out but he would like to sit down with the owners to see what the alternatives are. Mr. Yeksavich said another potential thing would be, as part of a PUD agreement, a Signage Plan. The ordinance presently predicts that might be possible while allowing Signage Plans as a Special Use as a total to be negotiated out depending on the merits of each PUD agreement. Mr. Ostman said that is something they are going to be looking at - creating the language for a PUD; for example, the intent for putting Shure, Inc. under a PUD is to look at the whole development itself. This Committee plus the Board of Trustees look at it in its entirety. Mr. Annunzio said it should be done through a PUD that both parties agree to. If you don’t do it that way, they could run into an issue with government interference with existing contracts and he doesn’t want to go there. Ms. Connors also wanted to add that with the new lease they just signed with Ross – Dress for Less [coming into the vacant Office Depot location], they are very excited to have signed them as a tenant. Ross is happy to be going on the pylon sign and appreciate the exposure. Mr. Ostman added they do want that as an advantage coming into Niles. They do not want to ruin it. If they have to come back to this Board in future years and say maybe they need to go a little higher than 22 ft., so be it. Point Plaza is nearly 100% occupied; Four Flags is at 100% and Niles doesn’t want to do anything to jeopardize that. Page 16 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Katie Schneider, Niles Chamber of Commerce, 8060 W. Oakton St., Niles, IL stepped to the podium and was sworn in. After appearing here last month, she wanted to thank Chuck [Ostman] for handling all inquiries in a rapid manner. It speaks to the Village trying to work with the businesses during this process. The owner from Golf Mill Ford [Gus Kritsalis] could not be at tonight’s meeting. The comment on his behalf is they would have to make changes to the height of their sign. His concern is about visibility since he surrounded by two and three story buildings. She also wanted clarification on what structural changes means. Mr. Yeksavich said anything that alters the physical architectural character that makes it less compliant with this code. For instance, if you added an extra panel that increases the sign area then all of sudden you have a bigger or taller sign. Ms. Schneider said a lot of signs have light bulbs in them. Certain types of light bulbs are no longer available so at some point those signs would have to be refitted or taken down and redone completely, but the same sign would go up again. Is that considered a structural change? Mr. Yeksavich said he believes that would be grandfathered in, as long as copy and area remain the same. Ms. Schneider had one more question. When you create these Sign Codes and put a lot of research into this, is there a reason that height becomes an issue, neon signs become an issue? Are you trying to create a character for Niles? Is it falling into beautification plans, or redevelopment ideas? Is there a bigger picture that you are working toward? Mr. Yeksavich said in this process they have been guided by the Building and Zoning Committee. It is not his company’s vision but recommending those elements that might further what their ideas were and further refined by this Board. There are some of those issues but the primary purpose of this code update is to simplify it, refine it and modernize it. Chairman Kanelos clarified this is not the Building and Zoning Committee. This is the Zoning Board of Appeals and Plan Commission. The Building and Zoning Committee is a Committee of the Village Trustees and has some other Page 17 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 members on it as well. It is a separate Committee that is working on this. From there it came to us to discuss and come up with our ideas and to make a recommendation to the Trustees, who will make the final decision. Ms. Schneider asked again is this part of a Comprehensive Plan of beautifying. Mr. Yeksavich said there is some of that going on as the Village works on its Comprehensive Plan, a major component of which is directed on the physical aspects and character of the Village. Chairman Kanelos asked if there were other questions from the public. There were none. At this time he entertained a motion. Commissioner Dubiel moved to approve the Sign Code, striking page 19, 78- 5.1, number 2 – Celebratory signs. Strike the entire paragraph because it doesn’t meet the health, safety and welfare standards. Also, 7 – Holiday decorations – first amendment issue, health, safety and welfare again not met. And 16, political signs as well. Chairman Kanelos asked for a second on the motion and there was none. Therefore there is no recommendation. Commissioner Troiani moved to approve the work of the people…..Chuck, who is the Sign Board of Appeals? Mr. Ostman said it doesn’t exist anymore. It is now handled by this Board. All the responsibilities the Sign Board of Appeals had is now assigned to this Board. Chairman Kanelos asked Commissioner Dubiel to repeat his motion. Commissioner Dubiel moved to approve these Code Revisions as written, striking Section 78-5.1, paragraph 2, paragraph 7 and paragraph 16. Chairman Kanelos seconded the motion. On roll call the vote was: AYES: 4 Surace, Kanelos, Schulter, Dubiel NAYS: 3 Dimond, Troiani, Nakanishi There being four (4) affirmative votes the motion carried. Page 18 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Mr. Yeksavich said he would look to the Board to make recommendations on those signages that were stricken because if they are not allowed under the Exempt signage, they are not allowed at all on the properties, technically. They are not spoken about at all in the code. Commissioner Dubiel said they were previously not covered either, correct? Mr. Yeksavich said the only one that wasn’t covered was Celebratory signage. Political signage and Holiday decorations were covered. Commissioner Dubiel said Holiday signage is still covered in the Electrical Code, just not the Sign Code. Mr. Yeksavich said yes, but this section of the document allows people to do these signages without getting a permit. Under the way the code is written now they would fall under a nebulous area where it is not mentioned at all and the process of actually allowing the signage would have to be up for interpretation by the Village. Commissioner Dubiel then said the process for enforcing absent items from the code is null. That is my understanding. If it’s not in the code, it cannot be enforced. Mr. Yeksavich deferred to the legal counsel for the Village. Mr. Annunzio stated as a general rule, that is correct. Chairman Kanelos said then by not being in the code, it is allowed. Mr. Annunzio said you better take a look at the code to see if there is a general rule saying that all signs need to be permitted unless…. Commissioner Dubiel said he didn’t see that in there. Mr. Yeksavich said there is a prohibition about any signage not covered in this Code, if he remembers correctly. He will have to look it up. Under the Sign Permits, under Special Use, the first one states any sign not covered in this code requires a Special Use permit. Commissioner Dubiel said that was not the Board’s intent. He missed that. It’s a big code and there is a lot to read. Page 19 of 20  APPROVED MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE PLAN COMMISSION AND ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS VILLAGE OF NILES COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS February 7, 2011 Chairman Kanelos said they need a recommendation to add to the list of Exempt signs. Commissioner Dubiel said right, those three sections without any limitations. Is that a motion or just a recommendation for intent? Chairman Kanelos said it has to be a motion. Commissioner Dubiel moved to reinstate paragraph 2, paragraph 7 and paragraph 16. Paragraphs 2,7 and 16 would be exempt under the Building Code. There would be no restrictions placed on them but they would be exempt and allowed. Seconded by Chairman Kanelos, on roll call the vote was: AYES: 4 Surace, Kanelos, Schulter, Dubiel NAYS: 3 Dimond, Troiani, Nakanishi There being four (4) affirmative votes the motion carried. Chairman Kanelos made a motion to adjourn the meeting. Commissioner Dubiel moved to adjourn. Seconded by Vice-Chairman Dimond, on roll call the vote was: AYES: 6 Dimond, Surace, Kanelos, Troiani, Nakanishi, Dubiel NAYS: 1 Schulter There being six (6) affirmative votes the motion carried. The meeting adjourned at 8:55 p.m. Kathleen Janessa, Recording Secretary Page 20 of 20